Learning My Catholic Faith: Thoughts, Research, Documents: September 2021

Pope Francis did NOT said NO to Women's Ordination! John Paul II Said NO, DOGMATICALLY
Many people were upset about Pope Francis answer to the question concerning women's ordination in his interview with the journalists on the way home from WYD in Rio.  Most headlines and comments said that Pope Francis said NO to women's ordination to the priesthood.  That is neither a fair nor an accurate assessment of Pope Francis' answer to the journalist's question. 
Ir was NOT Pope Francis who said No to the  question of women's ordination! 
It was Pope John Paul II who said NO.  And he said it in such a way(with a particular formula),  that all of his successors would be bound by the same restrictions. 
Let me explain.
But first, here is the English translation of the interchange that brought up the question of the women's ordination.
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Anna Ferreira: Holy Father, good evening. Thank you. I would like to say “thank you” so many times: thank you for having brought so much joy to Brazil, and thank you also for answering our questions. We, journalists, are so fond of asking questions. I would like to know, why, yesterday, you spoke to the Brazilian Bishops about women’s participation in our Church. I’d like to understand better: how should this participation be for us, women in the Church? If you … what do you think of the ordination of women? What should our position in the Church be?
 
Pope Francis: I would like to explain a bit what I said on the participation of women in the Church. It can’t be limited to being altar servers or presidents of Caritas, catechists … No! It must be more, but profoundly more!
Even mystically more, with what I’ve said of the theology of woman.
And, with reference to the ordination of women,
 the Church has spoken and she said : “No.”
John Paul II said it, but with a definitive formulation. That is closed, that door is closed.
But I’d like to say something about this. I’ve said it, but I repeat it. Our Lady, Mary, was more important than the Apostles, than bishops, deacons and priests.
In the Church, woman is more important than bishops and priests; how, it’s what we must seek to make more explicit, because theological explicitness about this is lacking. Thank you.
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Pope Francis' words  concerning women's ordination were,
"And, with reference to the ordination of women 
 the Church has spoken
 and she said : “No.”
John Paul II said it, 
but with a definitive formulation. 
That is closed, that door is closed."
                        -----------
Most people just heard the word 'NO" in that answer.
And judging by the articles, the media also seems to have only heard the word "No" ( which may be part of the reason why  most people heard it that way.).
BUT, what does that answer mean exactly? 
Why did Pope Francis say that the CHurch has spoken and she said no?
His next sentence EXPLAINS  how the Church had already addressed this issue and said no.
"John Paul II said it, but with a definitive formulation."
                   ------------------
Most of us would not understand how this explains that the CHURCH HAS SPOKEN  AND SHE SAID NO.
Most of us  would not realize exactly what Pope Francis was referring to when he said that John Paul II  had said it. AND most of us would not understand what Pope Francis meant by the phrase 'a definitive formulation'.
Well let me try to explain this short but very full and very concise answer! 
A Definitive Formulation is the formula used by a pope for speaking 'ex cathedra', that is, speaking from the chair of Peter. Speaking from the chair of Peter, ex cathedra, is considered to be infallible.
 As stated in Vatican I , speaking ex cathedra  means that
it is a dogma Divinely revealed that the Roman pontiff when he speaks ex cathedra,
he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church,
and that therefore such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves and not from the consent of the Church irreformable. 
What John Paul II had said  with a 'definitive formula' was that the Catholic priesthood is reserved to men and that the Church cannot ever ordain women. The statement was made in an Apostolic Letter entitled  Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.
SO, THE ANSWER THAT POPE FRANCIS  GAVE ON THE SUBJECT ON WOMEN'S ORDINATION  actually means this:   by saying that the Catholic priesthood is 	reserved to men, and therefore the Church cannot ever ordain women  with a definitive formulation(ex cathedra), John Paul II made it a doctrine of faith.
Since doctrines are considered to be part of the 'deposit of faith', they CANNOT be changed."  
Therefore, Pope Francis said, "The Church has spoken and she said no."  
And THAT is why he  said,
"That is closed, that door is closed." 
(Note: Disciplines are not considered to be part of the deposit of faith and  these are the things that can be changed in the Catholic Church.)
Pope Francis did NOT close the door on women's ordination! It was already closed before he got there. 
The door was closed in John Paul II's Apostolic Letter, Orinatio Sacerdotalis.
Here is a description of the Apostolic Letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalisit that Pope John Paul II wrote.  It was issued on May 	22, 1994, and it may have been John Paul's most controversial apostolic letter. In 	it he announced "in a definitive mode" that the Catholic priesthood is 	reserved to men, and therefore the Church cannot ever ordain women. By making 	this announcement in these unquestionable terms, the Pope  made it clear that 	his successors would be bound by the same restriction, since the all-male 	priesthood was established not by human rules by by divine command.
.
The actual statement(underlined), taken from the Apostolic Letter, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis,  that reserves the Catholic priesthood to men::
 "Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to  be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal  Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent  documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still  open to debate, or the Church's judgment that women are not to be admitted to  ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed  regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's  divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren  (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer  priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held  by all the Church's faithful."
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Below, I have copied the  Apostolic Letter,Ordinatio Sacerdotalis( with a brief introduction) and the pertinent excerpts from Vatican I documents on infallibility and The conditions required for  ex cathedra teaching (the definitive formula).
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For those of you who may not be aware of this:
In this Apostolic Letter,Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, Pope John Paul II INTENTIONALLY made  a definitnve statement that the Catholic priesthood is reserved to men. He used the formula(as defined  in the First Vatican Council.) for teaching ex cathedra 
 ex cathedra makes this an INFALLIBLE doctrine of faith  .
(Speaking, 'ex cathedra', from the chair (of Peter),  defines the statement made by the pope to be infallible DOGMA!)
 
 
 
The Apostolic Letter concerning the priestly ordination of women 
 
APOSTOLIC  LETTER 
ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS
 OF JOHN PAUL II TO THE BISHOPS  OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH  ON RESERVING PRIESTLY ORDINATION  TO MEN ALONE
 
<p>
 
</p>
<p> </p><p>
Venerable Brothers in the Episcopate,
</p><p>
1. Priestly ordination, which hands on the office  entrusted by Christ to his Apostles of teaching, sanctifying and governing the  faithful, has in the Catholic Church from the beginning always been reserved to  men alone. This tradition has also been faithfully maintained by the Oriental  Churches.
</p><p>
When the question of the ordination of women arose in  the Anglican Communion, Pope Paul VI, out of fidelity to his office of  safeguarding the Apostolic Tradition, and also with a view to removing a new  obstacle placed in the way of Christian unity, reminded Anglicans of the  position of the Catholic Church: "She holds that it is not admissible to ordain  women to the priesthood, for very fundamental reasons. These reasons include:  the example recorded in the Sacred Scriptures of Christ choosing his Apostles  only from among men; the constant practice of the Church, which has imitated  Christ in choosing only men; and her living teaching authority which has  consistently held that the exclusion of women from the priesthood is in  accordance with God's plan for his Church."(1)
</p><p>
But since the question had also become the subject of  debate among theologians and in certain Catholic circles, Paul VI directed the  Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to set forth and expound the teaching  of the Church on this matter. This was done through the Declaration Inter  Insigniores, which the Supreme Pontiff approved and ordered to be published.(2)
</p><p>
2. The Declaration recalls and explains the fundamental  reasons for this teaching, reasons expounded by Paul VI, and concludes that the  Church "does not consider herself authorized to admit women to priestly  ordination."(3) To these fundamental reasons the document adds other theological  reasons which illustrate the appropriateness of the divine provision, and it  also shows clearly that Christ's way of acting did not proceed from sociological  or cultural motives peculiar to his time. As Paul VI later explained: "The real  reason is that, in giving the Church her fundamental constitution, her  theological anthropology-thereafter always followed by the Church's Tradition-  Christ established things in this way."(4)
</p><p>
In the Apostolic Letter Mulieris Dignitatem, I myself  wrote in this regard: "In calling only men as his Apostles, Christ acted in a  completely free and sovereign manner. In doing so, he exercised the same freedom  with which, in all his behavior, he emphasized the dignity and the vocation of  women, without conforming to the prevailing customs and to the traditions  sanctioned by the legislation of the time."(5)
</p><p>
In fact the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles attest  that this call was made in accordance with God's eternal plan; Christ chose  those whom he willed (cf. Mk 3:13-14; Jn 6:70), and he did so in union with the  Father, "through the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:2), after having spent the night in  prayer (cf. Lk 6:12). Therefore, in granting admission to the ministerial  priesthood,(6) the Church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord's  way of acting in choosing the twelve men whom he made the foundation of his  Church (cf. Rv 21:14). These men did not in fact receive only a function which  could thereafter be exercised by any member of the Church; rather they were  specifically and intimately associated in the mission of the Incarnate Word  himself (cf. Mt 10:1, 7-8; 28:16-20; Mk 3:13-16; 16:14-15). The Apostles did the  same when they chose fellow workers(7) who would succeed them in their  ministry.(8) Also included in this choice were those who, throughout the time of  the Church, would carry on the Apostles' mission of representing Christ the Lord  and Redeemer.(9)
</p><p>
3. Furthermore, the fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary,  Mother of God and Mother of the Church, received neither the mission proper to  the Apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the non-admission  of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity,  nor can it be construed as discrimination against them. Rather, it is to be seen  as the faithful observance of a plan to be ascribed to the wisdom of the Lord of  the universe.
</p><p>
The presence and the role of women in the life and  mission of the Church, although not linked to the ministerial priesthood, remain  absolutely necessary and irreplaceable. As the Declaration Inter Insigniores  points out, "the Church desires that Christian women should become fully aware  of the greatness of their mission: today their role is of capital importance  both for the renewal and humanization of society and for the rediscovery by  believers of the true face of the Church."(10)
</p><p>
The New Testament and the whole history of the Church  give ample evidence of the presence in the Church of women, true disciples,  witnesses to Christ in the family and in society, as well as in total  consecration to the service of God and of the Gospel. "By defending the dignity  of women and their vocation, the Church has shown honor and gratitude for those  women who-faithful to the Gospel-have shared in every age in the apostolic  mission of the whole People of God. They are the holy martyrs, virgins and  mothers of families, who bravely bore witness to their faith and passed on the  Church's faith and tradition by bringing up their children in the spirit of the  Gospel."(11)
</p><p>
Moreover, it is to the holiness of the faithful that  the hierarchical structure of the Church is totally ordered. For this reason,  the Declaration Inter Insigniores recalls: "the only better gift, which can and  must be desired, is love (cf. 1 Cor 12 and 13). The greatest in the Kingdom of  Heaven are not the ministers but the saints."(12)
</p><p>4. Although the teaching that 
priestly ordination is to  be reserved to men alone 
has been preserved by the constant and universal  Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent  documents, 
at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still  open to debate, or the Church's judgment that women are not to be admitted to  ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.
</p><p>
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed  regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's  divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren  (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer  priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held  by all the Church's faithful.
</p><p>
Invoking an abundance of divine assistance upon you,  venerable brothers, and upon all the faithful, I impart my apostolic blessing. 
</p><p>
From the Vatican, on May 22, the Solemnity of  Pentecost, in the year 1994, the sixteenth of my Pontificate. 
</p><p>
NOTES  
</p><p>
1. Paul VI,  Response to the Letter of His Grace the Most Reverend Dr. F.D. Coggan,  Archbishop of Canterbury, concerning the Ordination of Women to the Priesthood  (November 30, 1975); AAS 68 (1976), 599.
</p><p>
2. Cf.  Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration Inter Insigniores on the  question of the Admission of Women to the Ministerial Priesthood (October 15,  1976): AAS 69 (1977), 98-116. 
</p><p>
3. Ibid., 100. 
</p><p>
4. Paul VI,  Address on the Role of Women in the Plan of Salvation (January 30, 1977):  Insegnamenti, XV (1977), 111. Cf. Also John Paul II Apostolic Exhortation  Christifideles laici (December 30, 1988), n. 51: AAS 81 (1989), 393-521;  Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 1577. 
</p><p>
5. Apsotolic  Letter Mulieris Dignnitatem (August 15, 1988), n. 26: AAS 80 (1988), 1715. 
</p><p>
6. Cf. Dogmatic  Constitution Lumen Gentium, n. 28 Decree Presbyterorum Ordinis, n. 2b. 
</p><p>
7. Cf. 1 Tm  3:1-13; 2 Tm 1:6; Ti 1:5-9. 
</p><p>
8. Cf.  Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 1577. 
</p><p>
9. Cf. Dogmatic  Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium, nn. 20,21.
</p><p>
10.  Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration Inter Insigniores, n. 6:  AAS 69 (1977), 115-116. 
</p><p>
11. Apostolic  Letter Mulieris Dignitatem, n. 27: AAS 80 (1988), 1719. 
</p><p>
12.  Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration Inter Insigniores n. 6:  AAS 69 (1977), 115. 
</p>
 
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Ex Cathedra is (infallibly) defined in the First Vatican Council.
 
Dogmatic Definition of 1870 
Vatican Council, Sess. IV, Const. de Ecclesiâ Christi, c. iv, holds:
We teach and define that 
it is a dogma Divinely revealed that the Roman pontiff when he speaks ex cathedra, 
that is when in discharge of the office of pastor and doctor of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority,
 he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, 
by the Divine assistance promised to him in Blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer willed that his Church should be endowed in defining doctrine regarding faith or morals, and that 
therefore such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves and not from the consent of the Church irreformable
.
 
 
The conditions required for  ex cathedra teaching are mentioned in the Vatican decree
: 
The pontiff must teach in his public and official capacity as spiritual head of the Church universal, not merely in his private capacity as a theologian. 
He must be teaching some doctrine of faith or morals in a manner that explicitly and solemnly defines an issue. 
His teaching cannot contradict anything the Church has taught officially and previously. 
It must be evident that he intends to teach with his supreme Apostolic authority. In other words, he must convey his wish to determine some point of doctrine in an absolutely final and irrevocable way. There are well-recognized formulas that are used to express this intention, such as "We declare, decree and define, . . .". 
It must be clear that the Pope intends to bind the whole Church. Unless the Pope formally addresses the whole Church in the recognized official way, he is assumed to not intend his teaching to be ex cathedra and infallible (unless he is reiterating what has always been taught). 
There will be an anathema attached to the definition that outlines consequences for not assenting to it. For ex., in Pope Pius XII's infallible definition regarding the Assumption of the Virgin Mary, there are attached these words, viz: "Hence if anyone, which God forbid, should dare willfully to deny or to call into doubt that which we have defined, let him know that he has fallen away completely from the divine and Catholic Faith." 
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Stanford EspedalIt was Jesus.
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Ursula StegallStanford Espedal, I wrote this to TRY TO EDUCATE THESE LIBERALS( in a rather gentle way) WHO CLAIM TO BE AND THINK THAT THEY ARE CATHOLIC . Telling them that they were apostate and they should go join the Anglican church did not go over well...and they could not hear it... I want to ask them what it is exactly is in their belief system that ithey believe is actually Catholic!. I have had a rude awakening in the last 2 months...I guess I was rather naïve and innocent on the subject.. I accidently ran across a video ordaining women being ordained and went to their website and facebook page...They tell people they are a movement within the Roman Catholic Church!...even though they know they are excommunicated! http://romancatholicwomenpriests.org/index.php
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Stanford EspedalI know them well, unfortunately. Their ultimate purpose is not the ordination of women, but to do away with ordination altogether, so that all are "priests". If you ever go to one of their invalid "masses" (which I did as a Catholic reporter), you will see that they have everyone present extending their hands and reciting the words of consecration. They are into very diabolical stuff.
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 · 7y
Ursula StegallStanford Espedal, you said above, ' They are into very diabolical stuff..' I am reminding you by quoting you because it was 4 years ago. I was reading some of these notes and comments to see if it would be understandable for a convert friend of mine. and your comment reminded me of the shocking things I learned when I delved into the romancatholicwomenpriests. I went down that rabbit hole and discovered that diabolical stuff . Every manner of sexual perversion is not only ok to them but is considered to be a very good thing and a highly valued experience. I do not think they even have a concept of sin in their belief system.. Whether they realize it or not, they look more like nature and GAIA worshipping Luciferians than anything remotely related to Catholic or even the simplest error ridden form of Christianity for that matter.
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 · 3y
Stanford EspedalRemember that newspaper article I mentioned? Here it is:
http://web.archive.org/.../ed/articles/2006/0611se.htm
WEB.ARCHIVE.ORG
San Diego News Notes | November/December 2006 | Articles | God of the Unclean , by Stanford Espedal
San Diego News Notes | November/December 2006 | Articles | God of the Unclean , by Stanford Espedal
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Ursula StegallI could not go straight to the site so I used the wayback machine and I found it. Great article. They talk about Jesus and then they worship the god of the unclean....I guess they do not see any cognitive dissonance in that.... Well, along with being the father of lies, Satan does very well with confusion, too. Well, I got news for those SJW's, their 'god of the unclean' can create nothing,,,no thing...not an elect...not the slightest smidgen of a creation...,,,,nada,,,,zilch!. . He is a master of illusion...and of destruction/// Anyway, I will pray for these deceived soulds. Pray for me too, Stanford Espedal. I do not know how to resind to Poe Francis in love... or lots of the clergy these days...I get mad a lot but responding in both truth and love these days seem beyond me....I know Jese cannot be pleased with how I resoind but I can't figure out how to do it right, I do not have much resooect for them anymore 
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Ursula StegallOh here is the address I used for your article. https://web.archive.org/.../ed/articles/2006/0611se.htm
WEB.ARCHIVE.ORG
San Diego News Notes | November/December 2006 | Articles | God of the Unclean , by Stanford Espedal
San Diego News Notes | November/December 2006 | Articles | God of the Unclean , by Stanford Espedal
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Stanford EspedalUrsula, this... "their 'god of the unclean' can create nothing,,,no thing...not an elect...not the slightest smidgen of a creation...,,,,nada,,,,zilch!. . He is a master of illusion...and of destruction"; is a very important point with respect to God's ultimate plan for doing away with evil, which not being a creation of God, has no substantive existence.
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Learning My Catholic Faith: Thoughts, Research, Documents

Saturday, September 11, 2021

Obituary: Deacon Alex C. Jones Jr.

Deacon Alex C. Jones Jr. of West Bloomfield, Michigan | 1941 - 2017 | Obituary

Pope Francis did NOT said NO to Women's Ordination! John Paul II Said NO, DOGMATICALLY
