I don't have the energy or brainpower to respond properly to this right now.(I have been working and typing on these responses for over 8 hours now...I am a slow typer ;)....... )
General overview
He saith unto them, But who say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
[18 And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.]
(When Jesus says to Peter, You are Rock-this is the exact moment when Jesus CHANGES Peter's name- he changes noone else's name at all- this alone would indicate that Peter has a special role and he uses the same word that he changes his name to for the Rock upon which He will build His Church...That moment of name change alone is enough to indicate that He is referring to Peter and not his confession as the rock upon which he will build His Church.
When Rock is capitalized in the Bible it DOES refer to God . The foundation of the Church IS JESUS. The Church is founded on Jesus. He is head of the Church. But Jesus changes Simon's name to Rock on purpose and it IS capitalized . Jesus is not saying that Peter is God ... so why does he name his ROCK.... as is seen below He is giving Peter His own authority when he givesPeter the keys to Kingdom of Heaven then tells himthat what he binds on earth is bound in Heaven and what he looses on earth is loosed in Heaven . Jesus, the King, will be going away soon and he is assigning Peter to be His steward of this Kingdom UNTIL he returns. Therefore , Peter is the Vicar of Christ, his representative on earth, The office of Steward , Vicar of Christ , Pope that has just been established. All of this was not just for the lifetime of Peter. It was established UNTIL Jesus returns to earth in glory... )
[19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:]
( In the Davidic Kingdom, what are the keys? When the King goes away he leaves the keys of the kingdom with the steward. These keys are used to open and the gates to the city in the morning and close them at night-
[ and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven] Jesus gives Peter the authority to bind and loose and whatever he binds and looses on earth , it will be the same in heaven]
Jesus changes Simon's name to Peter(Rock) As he says You are Rock and on this ROck I shall build my Church He promises that the gates of hell will not PREVAIL against it. Then Jesus passes on His authority as the King of the Kingdom of Heaven to be His representative on earth until His return. His earthly ministry is almost complete and soon he will be ascending into Heaven. He passes on this authority by giving Peter the Keys and telling him that whatever he binds and looses on Earth will be bound and loosed in Heaven . Peter is to be HIS representative on earth while he is away until He returns...But Peter will not have to do this alone on his own abilities . Jesus said that he will send him and them a helper the Advocate, to lead them into all truth. Later on Jesus will BrEATHE on them...Peter and the Apostles and tell them all "who sins they forgive will be forgiven and whoevrer sins you retain will be retained. They do not have the poweror authority on their own.It is Jesus acting thru them They have it because Jesus GAVE them HIS authority fo forgive and retain sins.It says so right there in the Bible. This is what we call the Sacrament of Confession....It is Jesus who forgives thru his chosen instrument They do not forgive in and of themselves , They act 'in persona Christi' to forgive and retain. Jesus forgives through them because he just made them his representatives to do that in His name.... the authorizations from the mouth of Jesus are right therein black and white... He Did leave men to act as His representatives, whether anyone likes it or not.... These are the men that Jesus sent out to make disciples of all nations and he sent them out with the authority to act as His representatives....It is Jesus who is acting through these men when they act in this capacity to forgive and retain sins., and bind and loose.I... People always say we do not need a mind we can just tell Jesus...Tell that to Jesus . ...HE SET IT UP THAT WAY or do you have a different understanding of those words to Peter and to all f them after he breatheron them.... I DO tell it to Jesus...but I am also goin g to do my best to use the instruments he gives me here too....with the Sacraments that Jesus instituted comes even more Grace and I can always use that!..Whether you agree with thei nterpretations or not...we did not just make them up out of nwhere, they have a Biblical basis!.
Each time one of the apostles died they picked a successor to replace Him as they did with Judas.... or when they grew and needed more , they discerned , trained, laid hands on them and through this layng on of hands they pass the same authority that Jesus had given them....This is called apostolic succession...
well hours have gone by again....I got carried away... I will justpostlinks if anyone has anymorequestions....This is ALL thatI have been doing since I got up ...and I get a lot out of it...but I doubt anyone else will, or is interested or has ears to hear... and my ability to properly explain is deficient.... Holy Spirit it is up to you...do what you will guide me...
In Jesus Name, I ask that you guide us and me and direct us in the fight against the forces of evil. Your will be done, Lord!
===============================================================
I will address the petra point you made, for now, The New Testament was written in Greek but when Jesus was sitting around talking with the Apostles, Jesus was speaking in Aramaic their mother tongue...The original Aramaic has only one word for rock....the same word would have been used in both places, cephas ...
"Cephas means "rock".Jesus USED THE SAME WORD when he spoke it.AND this is the verse where Jesus changes Peter's name.
Taken in context, Jesus was changing Simon's name, as was done to Abraham and Sarah when their role in Salvation History changed. Jesus did not change any other Apostle's name or anybody else's name for that matter... Only Peter's---Why did he change Peter's name, then? name changes are always for some reason...( God did not change Saul's name to Paul...He had always had both of those names. Paul was the Latin for Saul)
Also, In Attic Greek there was a slight difference in meaning between the two words,petra and petros, but in Koine Greek (the dialect of the New Testament) they were synonyms. A place to look this up is D. A. Carson’s commentary on Matthew 16 in the Expositors Bible Commentary. He makes this point very well, and he is a highly-respected Evangelical Bible scholar.
http://jimmyakin.com/2004/04/petros_vs_petra.html
The pope is a sinner like the rest of us . We do believe that the office ofPeter carries withit a special grace but that doesnot make theman more than he is.There is way too much to get into on the pope and infallibility but no man is infallible including the Pope---except in a specific circumstance and condition-Infallibility only applies when the pope is speaking 'excathedra' [which means 'from the chair' (of Peter) which is like the Mercy Seat of of the Jews] on matters of faith and morals to the universal Church(Tis does NOT include talking to a reporter or in an interview,or in a personal letter, or speculating on philosophy or theology or in a conversation, or a speech to a group of people, etc) and he must declare definitively that this is a teaching that must be belived as a matter of faith by the whole Universal Church. In this circumstance we believe that the Holy Spirit guides Him and protects the Church from errors in matters of faith.
============================================================
People should be sure they know what the teaching actually is (at least look it up and be sure you know what the teaching of the Catholic church actually is as opposed to something you have been told)Before you condemn and/or attack what you THINK the CHURCH teaches, check the source itself. If you do not do that and you are wrong about what you THINK the teaching is, then you are spreading lies about a Christian ChurCh.Though, you truly believe that you are defending Truth,defending Jesus, if you are spreading a lie then you are actually helping Satan. Much of what people say is wrong about what the Church teaches Is WRONG BUt it is NOT what the Church teaches...
Many hear a word or sentence and ASS U ME they have the correct understanding ,and they Condemn it and the Church. They SPREAD IT AROUND but ...NO ONE bothers to LOOK IT UP in the Catholic teachings , THEY JUST BELIEVE WHAT THEY HEAR and assume it is right because they heard it from good trustworthy people who learned it from trustworthy people etc-not realizing that noone had checked to see if that was actually what the Catholic Church taught...Since when does one word or sentence explain an entire concept fully?....Find out what the Church actually teaches about something and then argue with it or condemn it. Many people even CONDEMN THOSE WHO SAY THEY BELIEVE IT. Even if something is a false teaching, noone has the authority or the right to condemn the PERSON who believes it. Being wrong is one thing...being condemned is quite another and only God has the authority to judge or condemn a PERSON...thank God...YOU HAVEN'T DONE THAT but many 'Christians' do.
I hope this made sense whether you believed it or not.. It isn't the whole explanation but I cannot give all the explanations in writing ...it takes way to long ....hours and hours for something that can be said n 10 minutes.... I do not mean to be inconsiderate. I hope that I do not come across that way...but I am tired and well...the discussion cannot even include a debate on whether something is true or not in the differences in belief because there are too many misconceptions that nobody even believes that get in the way and I realize that I am not capable of clearing u 500 years of the growth and spread of these misconceptions. If it is the will of God then the Holy Spirit is goingto have to do it...I can't ...
If I needtorespond to anything, it will probably have to be with links...unless someoe is actually debating something that is a true belief instead of a misconception... I love y'all... It has been a learning experience but it is waytoo much for me... I have written and typed more in the last few days than I have in 3 or 4 years! Phew!
God Bless All of You and have a great day! and please pray for me
I will remember you in my prayers
http://www.catholicbible101.com/papalinfallibility.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm
http://www.catholic.com/for-other-christians
Show less
so what is your motive for this so called History Lesson.. are we to assume that the chuch of Rome is not a HARLOT.. what about all the inquisitions and praying to dead bones.. and purgatory and all that other garbage that comes from anything but a SAVIOUR WHO WAS FROM THE TRIBE OF YEHUDAH.. and even after His ascention still is called THE LION FROM THE TRIBE OF YEHUDAH.. and his mother had other children, so there fore she is not immaculate not a virgin..
Show less
Reply
·
1
the only motive WAS the history lesson showing that popes,too have prayed for
new outpourings of the Holy Spirit as at Pentecost...we are living in evil times....a post-Christian era where God is mocked and denied but Satanic worship is popularized and even considered to be 'cool' in many circles especially amonst teenages. Thatis the most dangerous form of rebellion to become a subculture among the young.... We are all sinners, there is only one blameless...Jesus came to save us. You have so many misconceptions of what you think you know about the Catholic Church...Is it your way to attack those whom you believe to be deceived....do you only treat those you thinkare right with love ? and the rest are worthy onlyof venom I cannot imagine Jesus saying any of the things you just said to anyone....there seems to be such nastiness and anger and even hatred in those words... I do not know you ...but the battle is raging all around us!...but I am not the enemy I dobelieve in the Catholic Church and I believe that she is the Church that Jesus founded but I am not here to convince you of anything.... I was simply responding to some of what I heard in the video ..It is very true that the Church is full of sinners down to every single person.. and the people in her make many mistakes ...but she has lasted 2000 years in spite of all the sinners in and in spite of herself.... For me, there is only one possible explanation for that and I believe that her teachings are true.... not what everyone says she teaches but what she actually teaches I do not know everything, however, as you seem to but I love Jesus and I trust in Him...I am sure that even as I die I will still won't have everything right and many things wrong....but I do my best and pray for god' protection and help and I trust Him... It seems that you think you already know everything... what is left for the Holy Spirrit to teach you and guide you in.... well...God Bless you
...oh... pleasse Try not to be so hard on other Christians even when you think they are wrong ...i don't think that helps many prople to know Jesus better or learn about him through you...but maybe that IS exactly what it takes for some.... pray for me... if you will. I always need prayers
new outpourings of the Holy Spirit as at Pentecost...we are living in evil times....a post-Christian era where God is mocked and denied but Satanic worship is popularized and even considered to be 'cool' in many circles especially amonst teenages. Thatis the most dangerous form of rebellion to become a subculture among the young.... We are all sinners, there is only one blameless...Jesus came to save us. You have so many misconceptions of what you think you know about the Catholic Church...Is it your way to attack those whom you believe to be deceived....do you only treat those you thinkare right with love ? and the rest are worthy onlyof venom I cannot imagine Jesus saying any of the things you just said to anyone....there seems to be such nastiness and anger and even hatred in those words... I do not know you ...but the battle is raging all around us!...but I am not the enemy I dobelieve in the Catholic Church and I believe that she is the Church that Jesus founded but I am not here to convince you of anything.... I was simply responding to some of what I heard in the video ..It is very true that the Church is full of sinners down to every single person.. and the people in her make many mistakes ...but she has lasted 2000 years in spite of all the sinners in and in spite of herself.... For me, there is only one possible explanation for that and I believe that her teachings are true.... not what everyone says she teaches but what she actually teaches I do not know everything, however, as you seem to but I love Jesus and I trust in Him...I am sure that even as I die I will still won't have everything right and many things wrong....but I do my best and pray for god' protection and help and I trust Him... It seems that you think you already know everything... what is left for the Holy Spirrit to teach you and guide you in.... well...God Bless you
...oh... pleasse Try not to be so hard on other Christians even when you think they are wrong ...i don't think that helps many prople to know Jesus better or learn about him through you...but maybe that IS exactly what it takes for some.... pray for me... if you will. I always need prayers
Show less
Reply
·
To love God is to hate evil. And I don't know what bible you read , but Yeshua had nothing but scathing remarks for the pharisees and saducees. He hates the deeds of the Nicolaitens who dare to place themselves between Yahweh and His sheep. He was not afraid to speak truth to those who twist His word. There should be no pope. YESHUA is the head of his church. I responded specifically to your comments about a pope . THERE IS NO CALLING FOR A POPE ANYWHERE IN YAHWEHS WORD. IT IS NOT A PART OF THE 5 fold ministry. The catholic church is a political entity. It is a counterfiet and its leaders who so elequently speak my Fathers word are what the bible refers to as angels of light. It walks like a duck it quacks like a duck, BUT IF YOU TAKE A.REALLY CLOSE LOOK IT IS NOT A DUCK. The Lord Yeshua did not create a religion named catholicism, Nor any other religion. I know that there are individuals in these Harlot institutions who trust in the BLOOD THAT SAVES MEN FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, however if they continue to follow catholic doctrine. then what they get is a mixture.. a false Messiah.. one must eat unleavened bread. THAT LIVING BREAD THAT COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN..and it is not mixed with the traditions of men.. which make Yeshuas word powerless and of no effect..and creates an image of Him which is false and thierfore anti Christ. If you are a part of the HARLOT I SUGGEST YOU GET OUT OF HER JUST LIKE YESHUA COMMANDS US TOO..AND FOLLOW HIM ONLY. NOT THE POPE, NOT THE BISHOP, NOT THE PASTOR OR ANY OF THE TITLES RELIGIOUS FOLKS ARE SO IMPRESSED WITH.. my Abba Fathers ekklesia is make of or LIVING STONES TO MAKE A SPIRITUAL TEMPLE.. HE NO LONGER DWELLS IN HOUSES CALLED CHURCHES. HE DWELLS IN HIS CALLED OUT ONES..
Show less
Reply
·
That was a charitable explanation of why you believe that...thank you...what about the Bible?...the book that contains the inspired word of God.... from many writings, scriptures, that were thought to be inspired,it was this same Church, with a pope and bishops, that determined which of these writings were to be included in the Canon of the Bible. It was the same Church, that you call a Harlot, that colledted these scriptures together, determined, through the Holy Spirit, which would be included, and brought them all together into one book....It was this Church who gave the world the inspired word of God in book form, the Bible....and it happened over 300 years after the death of Jesus...just history, When in history do you believe the book of the Bible appeared on the scene? How do you believe that it came to be ,as a book?
Francis denies the Son and has not the Father. Francis is of antichrist. Francis declares that the Catholic Church, not Jesus Christ, is the Way of salvation and unites Christianity with Islam saying we serve the same God. Francis is apostate and the false prophet of Revelation.
Show less
+Laura Lee oh my goodness...He does none of those things....show me where you think he has done those things...now I do not agree with everythinghe has said and contrary to what most protestants think catholics believe, we do NOT believe the pope is perfect and always right ....pope francis himself will tell you he is not and has admitted some mistakes...he is not perfect, he is not impeccable, and he is a sinner like the rest of us...the media has hijacked him an says he says things that he has not said...but if people do not go see for themselves then they continue to believe those things about him but we all know the media lies and truth is not a part of its objective....theonly time we believe the pope is infallible is when he is speaking on matters of faith and morals to the whole universal church and proclaims that he is and what he is saying is to be believed by all Christians . We believe the Holy Spirit and the grace of the office will protect any pope from teaching error in that situation ,,,, and there have been many popes who have never done it at all ... ....there have been bad popes and sinning and corruption have been the major preoccupation in their time...but bothering to teach or even teach a false doctrine has not been one of their interests...... .... far.......Christianity can never be united with Islam. in a religion or belief system..but we dialogue to work for peace we have in common with them that we are children of Abraham but theirviewsof God have been distorted ...to say the least...but that is not what you say to try to achieve peace ...you concentrate on the little in common but uniting that religion has never been and will never be a goal...peaceful coexistence and respect for each other's humanity is the hightest dream there pffff and that will require a miracle
Show less
WHO OR WHAT IS THE ROCK?????????
"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Messiah, the Son of the living God. And Yeshua answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Assembly; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven …" (Matthew 16:15-19)
This is how it reads to us in English, but in Greek (the original language of the New Testament) the words for rock are more specific. It reads:
"And I (Yeshua) say unto thee, That thou art petros, and upon this petra I will build my Assembly…"
The Scofield Study Bible explains it this way:
"In Greek there is a play upon words in this statement: ‘Thou art Peter [petros, a stone], and on this rock [petra, a massive rock] I will build my church.’ It is upon Christ Himself that the Church is built." (Scofield Study Bible, 1998 Edition, pg. 1206)
In his epistle, the apostle Peter describes this concept of Messiah as the "Living Stone" and believers "as living stones" built upon Him:
"… the Lord is gracious. To whom coming, as unto a living stone … chosen of God … Ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house … by Yeshua the Messiah" (1 Peter 2:3-5)
Throughout the Bible, the concept of "the Rock" has always referred to God, and to Christ. The apostle Paul clearly defined the "Rock" that gave water to the children of Israel in the days of Moses:
"… they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Messiah ." (1 Corinthians 10:4)
In the Psalms, David continually wrote of the Rock, not as if it represented a man, but clearly as a representation of God:
"The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust …" (Psalm 18:2)
"For who is God save the Lord? Or who is a rock save our God? (Psalm 18:31)
Furthermore, David makes it clear that God only is the true Rock in whom we should put our trust for salvation:
"Truly my soul waited upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation …" (Ps. 62:1-2)
"My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him. He only is my rock and my salvation …" (Ps. 62:5-6)
Along these lines, Paul makes it clear in his letter to the Corinthians as he talks about "God’s building" (i.e. the assembly 1 Cor. 3:9) that the only foundation is Yeshua Himself and there can be no other:
"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Yeshsua the Messiah(1 Cor. 3:11)
This was the understanding of the early Christians, and there is no record either in the Bible or in early church history that Peter was considered the "infallible" head of the ecclesia
"And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Messiah, the Son of the living God. And Yeshua answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Assembly; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven …" (Matthew 16:15-19)
This is how it reads to us in English, but in Greek (the original language of the New Testament) the words for rock are more specific. It reads:
"And I (Yeshua) say unto thee, That thou art petros, and upon this petra I will build my Assembly…"
The Scofield Study Bible explains it this way:
"In Greek there is a play upon words in this statement: ‘Thou art Peter [petros, a stone], and on this rock [petra, a massive rock] I will build my church.’ It is upon Christ Himself that the Church is built." (Scofield Study Bible, 1998 Edition, pg. 1206)
In his epistle, the apostle Peter describes this concept of Messiah as the "Living Stone" and believers "as living stones" built upon Him:
"… the Lord is gracious. To whom coming, as unto a living stone … chosen of God … Ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house … by Yeshua the Messiah" (1 Peter 2:3-5)
Throughout the Bible, the concept of "the Rock" has always referred to God, and to Christ. The apostle Paul clearly defined the "Rock" that gave water to the children of Israel in the days of Moses:
"… they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Messiah ." (1 Corinthians 10:4)
In the Psalms, David continually wrote of the Rock, not as if it represented a man, but clearly as a representation of God:
"The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust …" (Psalm 18:2)
"For who is God save the Lord? Or who is a rock save our God? (Psalm 18:31)
Furthermore, David makes it clear that God only is the true Rock in whom we should put our trust for salvation:
"Truly my soul waited upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation …" (Ps. 62:1-2)
"My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him. He only is my rock and my salvation …" (Ps. 62:5-6)
Along these lines, Paul makes it clear in his letter to the Corinthians as he talks about "God’s building" (i.e. the assembly 1 Cor. 3:9) that the only foundation is Yeshua Himself and there can be no other:
"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Yeshsua the Messiah(1 Cor. 3:11)
This was the understanding of the early Christians, and there is no record either in the Bible or in early church history that Peter was considered the "infallible" head of the ecclesia
Show less
No comments:
Post a Comment